ARIN XXVIII Public Policy Meeting Day 2 Notes - 12 April 2011 [Archived]

Opening and Announcements

Speaker: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Transcript

John Curran opened the second day of the ARIN Public Policy Meeting by presenting the updated agenda and thanking network connectivity sponsor Comcast. He encouraged all attendees to participate in the ITEMS survey about the ASO, and to share their thoughts on a variety of topics at special AC Topic Tables during the lunch break. John also ask people to find ARIN staff at breaks to respond to the video question of the day.

He introduced Jason Livingood, Vice President of Systems Internet Engineering at Comcast Cable and sponsor of ARIN XXVIII, who thanked ARIN for coming to Philadephia and shared his thoughts about the importance of the IPv6 transition.

John reviewed the rules of discussion to be followed throughout the meeting, and gave a brief overview of agenda.

At the beginning of the meeting, approximately 136 people were in attendance.

[ARIN offered the opportunity for remote participation throughout the meeting. Comments from remote participants are read aloud at the meeting and are integrated into the meeting report. There were approximately 40 individuals viewing the meeting webcast throughout the proceedings, and 37 registered remote participants.]

NRO NC Report

Speaker: Jason Schiller, ARIN Region NRO NC Representative

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Jason Schiller provided the NRO NC update.

Highlights included:

• Introduced members
• Explained role of NRO NC
• Preparations for ICANN Board, Seat 9 election
• Global policy proposal status update
• ITEMS survey

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation.

IPv6 IAB/IETF Activities Report

Speaker: Cathy Aronson

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Cathy Aronson provided a presentation about activities within the IETF related to IPv6. Cathy noted that this presentation is not an official IETF report, as there is no official IETF Liaison to ARIN or any RIR.

Highlights included:

• Updates from IETF Quebec City, Quebec, Canada
• Recommended folks read Draft-gashinsky-v6nd-enhance-00 dealing with IPv6 subnet issues
• Shared Transition space draft in last call
• WHOIS-based Exstensible Internet Registration Data Service (WEIRDS)
• World IPv6 Day Updates
• ISOC IPv6 Workshop
• Updates on various working groups: multitrans, RENUM, Routing Area, V6Ops, sidr, 6man, Ops Area, DNSOP, BEHAVE,

At the conclusion of the presentation, comments and questions were taken from the floor. Discussion highlights included:

• There is no good solution for the shared transition space.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

RIR Update - APNIC

Speaker: Geoff Huston, APNIC Chief Scientist

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Geoff Huston provided a presentation about APNIC.

Highlights included:

• Resources delegation stats in the region
• IPv4 exhaustion update
• New policies implemented in 2011
• Status of policies discussed at APINIC 32
• APNIC Labs – client side IPv6 analytics tool available
• ISIF program
• APNIC 33 – Delhi, India, 27 February – 2 March 2012

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation.

RIR Update - LACNIC

Speaker: Raúl Echeberría

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Raúl Echeberría provided a presentation about LACNIC.

Highlights included:

• Doubled membership in the last two years

• IPv4 Status - http://www.labs.lacnic.net/stats/reports/free

• Project Updates – RPKI, DNSSEC, IPv6 training, Customer Service improvements, AMPARO, FRIDA, Raices, SARA

• Meeting updates – LACNIC XV, LACNIC XVI

• Policy Updates

• Upcoming meetings

  • LACNIC XVII, 6-11 May 2012, Quito, Ecuador
  • LACNIC XVIII, 29 October – 2 November 2012, Montevideo, Uraguay

At the conclusion of the presentation, comments and questions were taken from the floor. There was a question about the disparity of 4-byte ASN assignments amongst the RIRs. John Curran suggested that conversation be moved to the Open Microphone session.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy 2011-10: Remove Single Aggregate requirement from Specified Transfer

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Introduction: PDF
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal. Highlights included:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Scott Leibrand and Stacy Hughes
• Introduced on PPML on 2 May 2011 (ARIN-prop-144) and designated as a draft policy 24 August 2011. This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN meeting.
• There is no similar proposal under consideration at any other RIR
• Presentation of Staff Impact Analysis, Legal Review, Staff Comments, and overview of PPML discussion activity. [see presentation and transcript links above for details]

Scott Leibrand continued with the presentation of the proposal. Scott presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale

Highlights:

• Removes “single aggregate” language from 8.3 policy and aligns with current staff implementation
• Allows multiple netblocks to be transferred in a single transaction
• Reduces potential legal conflicts for ARIN and simplifies policy
• Potential drawback is that allowing smaller blocks to transfer could result in additional routes being announced in the DFZ

Tim Denton, Chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion Highlights included:

• Implementation is contrary to wording. Seems the language needs to be changed to reflect the intended implementation.
• Will solve problems by allowing things to be done in the open
• Question as to whether this allow for the transfer of blocks smaller than current minimum allocation
• This would make implementation of 8.3 easier

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Tim Denton asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against the draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Tim stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

Draft Policy 2011-11: Clarify Justified Need for Transfers

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Chris Morrow, ARIN Advisory Council
Introduction: PDF
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal. Highlights included:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Chris Morrow and Dan Alexander
• Introduced on PPML on 2 May 2011 (ARIN-prop-146) and designated as a draft policy 24 August 2011. This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN meeting.
• There is no similar proposal under consideration at any other RIR
• Presentation of Staff Impact Analysis, Legal Review, Staff Comments, and overview of PPML discussion activity. [see presentation and transcript links above for details]

Chris Morrow continued with the presentation of the proposal. Chris presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale

Highlights

• Moves policy text concerning 12 month supply of addresses for 8.3 transfers to the proper section of NRPM
• Aligns with current staff procedures (for 8.2 transfers where staff uses a 12 month utilization window)
• Loosens transfer rules to make sure transfers happen and are tracked through the RIRs

Tim Denton, Chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion Highlights included:

• Support the intent of the policy, but not sure the concepts of “needs basis” and “slow start” reflect the state of the times.
• This bypasses slow start, which is a long held, successful policy used for all new requestors and is very useful in its present incarnation
• It is appropriate for folks to be able to get a 12-month supply on the transfer market
• Would support a longer timeframe for 8.3 transfers, something like 36 months for long term business planning purposes
• Clarified that this would make 8.3 transfers align better with 8.2 transfer policy

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Tim Denton asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against the draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Tim stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

Draft Policy 2011-12: Set Transfer Need to 24 months

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Martin Hannigan, ARIN Advisory Council
Introduction: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal. Highlights included:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Robert Seastrom and Martin Hannigan
• Introduced on PPML on 2 May 2011 (ARIN-prop-147) and designated as a draft policy 24 August 2011. This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN meeting.
• There is no similar proposal under consideration at any other RIR
• Presentation of Staff Impact Analysis, Legal Review, Staff Comments, and overview of PPML discussion activity. [see presentation and transcript links above for details]

Martin Hannigan continued with the presentation of the proposal. Marty presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale

Highlights:

• This policy is conditional on the acceptance of 2011-11, and extends justified need from 12 to 24 months.
• Major consideration should be if 24 months is too short a timeframe.

Tim Denton, Chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion Highlights included:

• Would consider delaying the implementation of this proposal until ARIN’s IPv4 address pool is lower
• Doubling the timeframe from 12 to 24 months would encourage speculation and hoarding
• We are running out of IPv4 address space and no policy is going to change that fact
• This proposal allows for greater business stability and long term projected growth rate
• Concerned that it removes slow start, so new entrants would still only be able to get 3 months directly from ARIN, but new entrants using 8.3 could get 24 months supply
• Could act to delay IPv6 adoption
• It should be decoupled from 2011-11 and become a stand alone policy proposal
• This proposal really is a great equalizer between smaller networks and larger ones
• Don’t use policies to try to regulate the market

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Tim Denton asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against the draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Tim stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

Changes at ARIN—Not your Grandpa’s RIR anymore (RPKI, DNSSEC, etc.)

Speaker: Andy Newton, ARIN Chief Engineer

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Andy Newton provided an update on DNSSEC and RPKI at ARIN.

Highlights included:

• DNSSEC update, ARIN Online functionality
• RPKI pilot
• How RPKI works and what it does
• Development challenges
• Project status

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation.

NRO Activities Report

Speaker: Raúl Echeberría

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Raúl Echeberría provided the NRO NC update.

Highlights included:

• NRO financial update
• ICANN participation
• IGF participation – hosted two workshops in Nairobi, Kenya
• Other governance work – OECD, ITU
• Ongoing activities
• Recent communications

Discussion highlights included:

• Vint Cerf – on IGF, more on the Brazil, India, and South Africa proposition
• Importance of continued engagement with Internet governance

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy 2011-13: IPv4 Number Resources for Use Within Region

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Bill Sandiford, ARIN Advisory Council
Introduction: PDF
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal. Highlights included:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Bill Sandiford and Cathy Aronson
• Introduced on PPML on 1 July 2011 (ARIN-prop-155) and designated as a draft policy 24 August 2011. This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN meeting.
• AFRINIC has a similar requirement in last call, and LACNIC discussed a similar proposal at its last meeting.
• Presentation of Staff Impact Analysis, Legal Review, Staff Comments, and overview of PPML discussion activity. [see presentation and transcript links above for details]

Bill Sandiford continued with the presentation of the proposal. Bill presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale

Highlights:

• Because IPv4 run out will happen at different times for each RIR, it is important to determine how out of region requests should be handled
• This policy would bind requestors to use IPv4 resources inside the ARIN region
• This policy would require requestors to provide documentation that verifies they will use the resources allocated to operate and serve customers within the ARIN region

Tim Denton, Chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion Highlights included:

• Support for the concept, but not for the way this is written.
• This policy could bar multi-national organizations from receiving resources from ARIN
• This policy could open the door for audits and resource revocations from all multi-national ISPs
• Needs more concrete requirements – percentages of use rather than “predominant”, it is too open to interpretation

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Tim Denton asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against the draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). A second question was posed to see if there was interest in seeing further work done on this policy proposal. After the tally was conducted, Tim stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

Draft Policy 2011-1: ARIN Inter-RIR Transfers

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Bill Darte, ARIN Advisory Council
Introduction: PDF
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal. Highlights included:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Bill Darte and Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML on 11 October 2010 (ARIN-prop-119) and designated as a draft policy 3 February 2011. Current version 22 September 2011. This is draft policy was first discussed at ARIN XXVII in San Juan.
• APNIC has adopted a similar policy, LACNIC held a panel discussion on a similar proposal at its last meeting
• Presentation of Staff Impact Analysis, Legal Review, Staff Comments, and overview of PPML discussion activity. [see presentation and transcript links above for details]

Bill Darte continued with the presentation of the proposal. Bill presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale

Highlights:

• Expand 8.3 to allow specified transfers both into and out of the ARIN region
• Parties involved must meet the requirements of their region to qualify

Tim Denton, Chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion Highlights included:

• This policy is too broad; it doesn’t have enough limits so it is very open to interpretation
• How will costs associated with this change be managed? It seems to place a burden on ARIN membership
• Concerned about the routing requirement
• This is necessary policy, sender must comply with their RIRs policy, receiver must comply with their RIRs policy.
• The text needs work, but the concept represents much needed policy
• It would be good to add a time frame for how much time must elapse between a transfer and a transferor receiving additional resources from ARIN

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Tim Denton asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against having the AC make small language corrections to the current text and then move it to Last Call. After the tally was conducted, Tim stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

Draft Policy 2011-9 (Global Proposal): Global Policy for post exhaustion IPv4 allocation mechanisms by the IANA

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: David Farmer, ARIN Advisory Council
Introduction: PDF
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal. Highlights included:

• Advisory Council shepherds: David Farmer and Chris Grundemann
• Introduced on PPML on 8 March 2011 (ARIN-prop-137) and designated as a draft policy 24 August 2011. Current version 22 September 2011. This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN meeting.
• This policy has been adopted by APNIC and LACNIC, and AFRINIC and RIPE NCC have this proposal in Last Call
• Presentation of Staff Impact Analysis, Legal Review, Staff Comments, and overview of PPML discussion activity. [see presentation and transcript links above for details]

David Farmer continued with the presentation of the proposal. David presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale

Highlights

• Describes process for the IANA to allocate IPv4 resources after central address pool exhaustion
• Currently there is no policy to that regulates how returned resources and small remaining blocks are to be distributed
• Past global policies on this topic have not succeeded
• This policy is close to meeting the requirements that would allow it to be adopted as a global policy
• This policy would not supersede section 4.3 of RFC 2860 that allows the IETF to make IPv4 assignments for “specialized address blocks”

Tim Denton, Chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion Highlights included:

• Equal distribution is not necessarily the same as equitable distribution on IPv4
• This doesn’t clarify or specify the terms under which resources must be returned to the IANA
• Policy is needed to determine the disposition of fragments held by IANA
• This policy would make sure resources don’t get stuck at the IANA

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

At the end of discussion, Tim Denton asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against the draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Tim stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

PDP Update

Speaker: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Transcript

John Curran provided a presentation about proposed revisions to the Policy Development Process.

Highlights included:

• Revised PDP is now out for community Consultation
• Rewrite is to increase clarity
• Comments are welcome

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation.

Policy Implementation Report

Speaker: Leslie Nobile

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Leslie Nobile provided a presentation about policies implemented since ARIN XXVII and operational feedback on other policies.

Highlights included:

• Recently implemented policies:

  • 2011-6: Returned IPv4 Addresses
  • 2011-4: Reserved Pool for Critical Infrastructure
  • 2011-3: Better IPv6 Allocation for ISPs
  • 2010-14: Standardize IP Reassignment Registration Requirements

• Operational Feedback on NRPM 4.2.4.4 Subscriber Members After One Year (3-month supply rule)

Discussion Highlights included:

• Clarification of the timing associated with 2011-4 – 36 months from run out or implementation
• Discussion of the sharp decline in IPv4 allocations since the implementation of NRPM 4.2.4.4

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Policy Experience Report

Speaker: Leslie Nobile

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Leslie Nobile provided a presentation to review existing policies, identifying areas where new or modified policy may be needed.

Policies reviewed included:

• NRPM 4.3.6.2 -Additional Assignments for Small Multihomers

  • Suggested possible removal of the renumbering requirement

• NRPM 4.5 - Multiple Discrete Networks

  • Question posed – should this policy apply to a network that can aggregate but choses not to for operational reasons?
  • Suggestion – add clear definition of “discrete network”

Comments and questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation included:

• Has anyone ever objected to the renumbering requirement?
• If no one is complaining and we aren’t using the policy – is it bad to keep it?
• Will/does the renumbering requirement impact 8.3 transfers?
• Multiple Discrete Networks was originally written for those that could not aggregate, it would be good to define that further in the policy text for clarity.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Open Policy Hour

Moderator: John Curran

Speaker: Richard Barnes (Geo-Whois Presentation)

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran moderated the Open Policy Hour discussion.

Highlights included:

• Presentation on idea for Geo-Whois [transcript of presentation]
  • Is there benefit to adding this information to Whois?
  • Is this a policy matter or could it be better addressed through the ARIN Consultation and Suggestion process?
  • How should ARIN ensure and maintain the accuracy of geolocation data?

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Open Microphone

Moderator: John Curran

Transcript

John Curran then moderated an open microphone session. Highlights included:

• Question on 2011-4 - Should this be time bound to end 3 years after run-out or 7 years from implementation, whichever comes first.
• Does the ARIN community have a collective definition of IPv4 run out? At what point do we consider the resource depleted?
• If policy 2011-9 is ratified, should ARIN return the Interop block to the IANA?
• Clarifications on the use of private keys and other technical details related to RPKI

Closing Announcements And Adjournment

Speaker: John Curran

Transcript

John Curran thanked network sponsor, Comcast and reminded attendees that the Members Meeting would begin tomorrow at 9:00 AM. He adjourned the meeting for the day at 5:40 PM EDT.

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