ARIN PPC at NANOG 61 Notes - 05 June 2014 [Archived]

Opening and Announcements

Speaker: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Transcript

John Curran opened the meeting and welcomed those in attendance.
John began the Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 61 by making meeting-related announcements and introducing those at the head table. He reviewed the meeting rules, agenda and the Discussion Guide. At the beginning of the meeting, approximately 45 people were in attendance. Paul Andersen moderated the policy discussions during the event.

[ARIN offered the opportunity for remote participation throughout the meeting. Comments from remote participants are read aloud at the meeting and are integrated into the meeting report. There were 12 registered remote participants.]

Update on Advisory Council Activities

Speaker: John Sweeting, ARIN Advisory Council Chair

Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Sweeting provided an update on Advisory Council activities. He reviewed the current docket of draft policies and proposals.

• Four Recommended Draft Policies – are these ready to go to Last Call
• Ten Draft Policies – particularly seeking feedback on a few the AC would like to abandon
• There is a room reserved for after this session if anyone wants to continue discussing any policy topics

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation.

Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2013-8: Subsequent Allocations for New Multiple Discrete Networks

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Andrew Dul, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal noting that this policy is a recommended draft.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Cathy Aronson, Owen DeLong, and Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in November 2013 (ARIN-prop-191)
• This draft policy was previously discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 58, 59, and at ARIN 32
• The AC recommended it for adoption in January 2014
• It was reverted to draft following the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and at presented following additional revision at ARIN 33
• The AC recommended it again for adoption in May 2014, this discussion will determine if it moves forward to Last Call
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Andrew continued with the presentation of the proposal, presenting the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• History and rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

There were no comments or questions from the floor at the conclusion of the presentation. Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its determination to move this forward to Last Call.

Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-5: Remove 7.2 Lame Delegations

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Springer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal noting that this policy is a recommended draft.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Rob Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-197)
• This draft policy was previously discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and.at ARIN 33.
• The AC recommended it for adoption in April of 2014, this discussion will determine if it moves forward to Last Call
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

John Springer continued with the presentation of the proposal. John presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• This policy has been unimplemented for five years.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-12: Anti-hijack Policy

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: David Farmer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal noting that this policy is a recommended draft.

• Advisory Council shepherds: David Farmer and Cathy Aronson
• Introduced on PPML in February 2014 (ARIN-prop-202)
• This draft policy was previously discussed at ARIN 33
• The AC recommended it for adoption in May 2014, this discussion will determine if it moves forward to Last Call
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

David Farmer continued with the presentation of the proposal. David presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Does anyone oppose the incorporation of the editorial changes proposed on PPML
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• It seems unclear exactly what space is subject to this policy. There are a variety of experimental spaces that could be impacted.
• This should only apply to ARIN allocation, both IPv4 and IPv6
• Singles out research organizations, rather than hijacking in general

At the end of discussion, Paul Andersen asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against this becoming a recommended draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Recommended Draft Policy ARIN-2014-13: Reduce All Minimum Allocation/Assignment Units to /24

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Kevin Blumberg, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal noting that this policy is a recommended draft.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Kevin Blumberg, Bill Darte
• Introduced on PPML in April 2014 (ARIN-prop-208)
• The AC accepted it as a draft and recommended it for adoption in May 2014, this discussion will determine if it moves forward to Last Call
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Kevin Blumberg continued with the presentation of the proposal. Kevin presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Support the simplification this provides, but oppose the clutter it creates in the policy manual
• This should be protocol agnostic policy, rather than IPv4 specific
• Clarification that this would not limit the initial allocation size to /24
• This policy matches up with reality and doesn’t further stall the depletion of IPv4

At the end of discussion, Paul Andersen asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against this becoming a recommended draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-1: Out of Region Use

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: David Farmer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background

• Advisory Council shepherds: Milton Mueller, Stacy Hughes, and Bill Darte
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-192)
• This draft policy was discussed during the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and at ARIN 33

David Farmer presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Can this policy trigger a reclamation or revocation action?
• We should move away from regional restrictions for allocation – the registry function is simply administrative
• Still needs some wordsmithing and the incidental use portion of this policy may not be necessary

At the end of discussion, Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-3: Remove 8.2 and 8.3 and 8.4 Minimum IPv4 Block Size Requirements

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Springer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Bill Darte and Owen DeLong
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-195)
• This draft policy was discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and at ARIN 33

John Springer presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• There is no technical reason why there should be /24 minimum. If people want to transfer a /32 they should be able to do so
• Routability does matter, and ARIN needs to keep it mind when developing policy – massive numbers of /32 transfers would be bad for routing
• Regardless of what is being transferred, Operators get to decide what they will route. Transfers are more of an operator to operator decision
• There are possible unintended and negative technical and business implications to this policy – not comfortable moving forward with this at this time

At the end of discussion, Paul Andersen asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against abandoning this draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-6: Remove 7.1 [Maintaining IN-ADDRs]

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background:

• Advisory Council shepherds: Robert Seastrom
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-198)
• This draft policy was discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and at ARIN 33

Scott Leibrand presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text - this policy has been updated to include removal of 6.5.6 so that it applies to both IPv4 and IPv6
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Would ARIN still be responsible for providing IN-ADDR support for ISPs?
• It is unclear who should be defining the operators responsibilities for IN-ADDR – that discussion is out of scope for this venue
• This seems like it would be best defined in an RFC
• As long as the reverse zone is delegated, what the registrant does with the IN-ADDR is their issue.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-8: Alignment of 8.3 Needs Requirements to Reality of Business

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Kevin Blumberg, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

John Curran presented an introduction to the proposal.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Kevin Blumberg and Milton Mueller
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-193)
• This draft policy was discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and at ARIN 33
• See presentation and transcript links above for details

Kevin Blumberg presented the proposal.

• The AC intent is to abandon this proposal
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• No matter what happens with this proposal we need to do more work to simplify Section 4 of the NRPM to deal with a post-runout world

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-9: Resolve Conflict Between RSA and 8.2 Utilization Requirements

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background

• Advisory Council shepherds: Heather Schiller and Scott Leibrand
• Introduced on PPML in January 2014 (ARIN-prop-199)
• This draft policy was discussed at the ARIN Public Policy Consultation at NANOG 60 and at ARIN 33

Scott Leibrand presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Does the RSA change to fit the NRPM, or does the NRPM need to fit the RSA?

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-11: Improved Registry Accuracy Proposal

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Kevin Blumberg, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background.

• Advisory Council shepherds: Kevin Blumberg and Bill Darte
• Introduced on PPML in February 2014 (ARIN-prop-203)
• This draft policy was discussed at ARIN 33

Kevin Blumberg presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Services are best defined through other channels, and this introduces problematic definitions to the NRPM
• Suggest putting this on hold pending the development of the ARIN Services document

At the end of discussion, Paul Andersen asked for a show of hands to determine those in favor and those against abandoning this draft policy (remote participants were invited to participate). After the tally was conducted, Paul stated that this information would be provided to the Advisory Council for use in its deliberations.

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-14: Removing Needs Test from Small IPv4 Transfers

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: John Springer, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background

• Advisory Council shepherds: Andrew Dul and John Springer
• Introduced on PPML in May 2014 (ARIN-prop-204)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.

John Springer presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• /16 is too large to be considered “small” for the purposes of this policy, a /20 seems more reasonable
• This should only apply to one transfer per year, additional transfers should be subject to needs assessment
• ARIN should not be lowering its standard to simply that of a recorder of deeds
• People are going to do this, whether the rules permit it or not, the registration of the space will be irrelevant.
• Why are we looking to create policy to relieve a staffing issue at ARIN

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-15: Allow Inter-RIR ASN Transfers

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Scott Leibrand, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background

• Advisory Council shepherds: Scott Leibrand and David Farmer
• Introduced on PPML in May 2014 (ARIN-prop-205)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.

Scott Leibrand presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Don’t support introducing regional fragmentation into the 4-byte AS pool by allowing transfers
• This policy, and other Inter-RIR transfer policies, create implementation challenges for operators that need to be considered (e.g. RPKI)
• There is no burning need to allow the transfer of ASNs, so it would be good to work through all the considerations before we adopt this policy

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-16: Section 4.10 Austerity Policy Update

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Dan Alexander, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background

• Advisory Council shepherds: Dan Alexander and Cathy Aronson
• Introduced on PPML in May 2014 (ARIN-prop-207)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.

Dan Alexander presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Request for community input

John Curran, ARIN President & CEO, moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• By co-mingling transition space and new-entrant reserve we create a mess – these two issues need to be handled through separate policies to keep things clear
• There is inherent inequality in the use of and access to address space. We should be holding as much IPv4 as possible for small organizations and new entrants

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Draft Policy ARIN-2014-17: Change Utilization Requirements from last-allocation to total-aggregate

Introduction: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Speaker: Andrew Dul, ARIN Advisory Council
Presentation: PDF
Transcript

Background

• Advisory Council shepherds: Andrew Dul and Owen DeLong
• Introduced on PPML in May 2014 (ARIN-prop-209)
• This is the first discussion of this draft policy at an ARIN Public Policy Consultation.

Andrew Dul presented the text of the proposal and then the rationale.

• Rationale for the proposal
• Overview of text
• Should this change be factored into the Multiple Discrete Networks policy also?
• Request for community input

Paul Andersen, Vice-chairman moderated discussion.

Discussion highlights:

• Seems like this could imbalance policy and make it easier for big players to get more space
• This would reset the request evaluation practices to the status quo from 12-18 month ago

For discussion details, please see the transcript.

Closing Announcements and Adjournment

Speaker: John Curran, ARIN President and CEO

Transcript

John Curran thanked everyone for their participation and encouraged them to plan on attending ARIN 34 in Baltimore in October.